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Parliament Wars, Episode I: The Gypsy Menace
Posted 2007-09-27 00:23 under Serbian Slang by Nemanja Radojkovic / 25 comments
INTRODUCTION:
Insults bring parliament session to halt
25 SEPTEMBER 2007 | 16:59 | SOURCE: BETA
BELGRADE — Today’s session of the Parliamentary Board for Kosovo was marked by a heated argument between its two members.
Marko Jakšić of the Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) and Vladan Batić of the Christian Democratic Party of Serbia (DHSS) engaged in a quarrel, hurling insults at each other until Batić stormed out of the meeting, telling Jakšić that “the matter was not yet closed.”
Batić first questioned the presence of Petar Ulemek, the Prior of the Zočište Monastery, at the Board’s session, noting that in future “a whole stadium wouldn’t be enough to hold everyone interested in discussing Kosovo.”
He raised the question of funds allocated to Kosovo from the state budget, demanding to know how the money was spent, and who had “made good out of it, buying apartments, property and jeeps.”
Jakšić responded by accusing Batić of coming to the session not in order to defend Kosovo, but to “provoke others with his Roma and Gypsy mentality.”
“Kosovo will be lost precisely because of people like you,” Batić retorted to Jakšić.
Batić raised several more questions concerning the spending of funds for Kosovo and left the session after other members of the Board appealed to both deputies to put an end to their argument.
And today, the hero of this story demonstrated that besides being a racist, he’s also as keen as mustard: Mr. Marko Jakšić MP (completely ’serial’) came back to the scene of crime and after apologizing to everyone who may have felt insulted by his words, stated that he actually has nothing against Roma/Gypsies – he was talking about „the specific Gypsy mentality of Mr. Batić“ meant “Gypsy, as a character trait of Mr. Batić”(!?). Go figure.
So, there it is, he obviously has nothing against them… nothing efficient, at least.
The sad thing about this latest, and maybe the most serious case of a Serbian public figure being so comfortable in its stupidity, is not the fact that a Brain-Dead Racist (pleonasm?) has somehow managed to drill his way into the Parliament – such anomalies happen – but the fact that this manner of speech won’t cost his party (DSS) a single vote, even though their only (re)action was distancing from the words of their fellow MP. These gentlemen think that the verbal warning issued to Jakšić by Mr. Oliver Dulić, the President of Parliament, just about settles the whole thing, and I find it somewhat embarassing for this country that it’s obviously true, at least as far as our general public is concerned.
Finally, pay attention to the strange occurences at the very end of the clip (you don’t have to understand Serbian to realize what’s happening).
Cast in order of appearance:
- Čedomir Jovanović (LDP), criticizing
- Our Hero, Marko Jakšić (DSS), „apologizing“
- Aleksandra Jerkov (LSV), criticizing
- Miloš Aligrudić (DSS), apologizing
- Srđan Šajn (President of the Roma Party), giving his opinion on the issue.
- Vladan Batić (DHSS), trying to say something, but then they appear…
- The hooves of Aleksandar Tijanić (the editor of Serbian national television – RTS), mingling with the broadcast in the last 30 seconds of the clip.
Benign or symptomatic, you decide.
Eric on 27/09/07 03:49 AM
Aleksandra Jerkov pretty much said it all.
Miha on 27/09/07 08:08 AM
Well, actually Jerkov merely proved she’s a kneejerk zombie footsoldier for her ideological regiment. Jaksic might be a lot of things (idiot and imbecile come to mind), but it takes an even bigger idiot to label him “fasicst” solely on the basis of explointing a negative connotation of the term gypsy in an emotional exchange with a non-gypsy political opponent.
Please come off it, Mother Theresa. Your own mother tongue features a verb – TO GYP (meaning: to fraud, to swindle, to deceive) – as a legitimate term, regularly used in movies, on TV, and everyday vernacular. I suppose Jerry Seinfeld, Quentin Tarantino, and counteless other public figures in US, England, Australia, and Canada are fasicsts as well.
Eric on 27/09/07 01:29 PM
Oh, have you made the amazing discovery that racism exists in more than one place? Congratulations.
Cvijus on 27/09/07 03:06 PM
I don’t know who is the biggest moron over here, Jaksic or Jerkov, since both of them come from moronic quasi-democrat parties and both speak like morons.
Viktor on 27/09/07 04:44 PM
It’s very easy to see who is the only moron and racist in this parliamentary story, and that is Jaksic. Any attempt to compare or equalize his rethorics and what he said with others that came out to speak after him would be nothing more than letting him off the hook.
Cvijus on 27/09/07 05:17 PM
Oh no no no, I’m not letting Jaksic of the hook just like that, not because I’m equalizing him with LSV. If Jaksic has any descency, which I doubt since after all he comes from DSS, he would not only apologize, but resign from being an MP and releave our parliament from primitive remarks. What annoyes me however the arrogant Jerkov attitude (“This man” – well he’s not a duck or a cow) and for everything her group doesn’t like, they call it Fascist and blahblahbla. What I hate is when people put masks and pretend they are tolerant and all that stuff. Who can guarantee me that Jerkov when away from cameras doesn’t call the Romany “Cigani” and phrases like “Ciganska posla” and call the Albanians Shiptari? One thing is sure, we have in Serbia nothing but moronic politicians, whether LDP, DSS, DS or SRS, you cannot distinguish who is the biggest moron. They all hate each other like cats and dogs, but when it comes to increasing their wages their solidarity is without presedent.
bganon on 27/09/07 05:19 PM
This is disgusting behaviour that, as usual, will go unpunished.
For those that think this is purely a party political issue lets bear one little fact in mind. Dragan Todorovic (number 4 in the hierarchy lets say) of the Serbian Radical Party condemned it or at least said it was not appropirate. This is hardly an issue with which to point out how one extreme on the political spectrum is the same as the other rather we should roundly condemn the ‘sinner’.
DSS caucus leader Aligrudic also distanced his party from this person.
It is astonishing to me, not that retrogade Serbia holds these types of views – we know they do. Its astonishing to me that they feel so free to come out in public and say such things. Stereotypes about gypsies may and can be said by ‘Joe Public’, even if distasteful or wrong, but members of parliament have a responsibility to behave in the correct manner. And of course parliament doesnt have the ‘teeth’ to enforce the right type of behaviour as of yet. Why?
Because the DSS official view is that sanctions should be light. Its qualified in terms of how similar laws operate in European countries. The problem with that is that in most European countries parliamentarians are capable of behaving within certain limits. Serbian politicians clearly are not. The primativism on display regularly in parliament is a disgrace and an embarassment.
Its ironic that the partcular gyspy ‘attribute’ that Jaksic was referring to in Batic, is the very same trait usually associated with the right wing parties in Serbia – slinging mud, everybody is a thief, hurling insults etc. And of course Jaksic was also implying that Batic is himself a gypsy (thats one which has been heard before, when I asked some politically active gyspies some years ago about Batic they said he was not a gypsy, not that it matters one jot) and implying therefore that his view is somehow less worthy.
Lucky for Jaskic that I’m not in charge because my first measure would be to strip him of his place on the Kosovo negotiations committees. I then would appoint a Kosovo gypsy in his place (there should be a member of the Roma community involved in Kosovo negotiations anyway). My second move would be fine him heavily and third would be to warn him that if he doesnt issue an unmitigated apology and / or steps out of line again he would be sacked as a member of the party / parliament.
This kind of thing makes me very angry and makes Serbia look like a primative society that it clearly is not. Ordinary people are more capable of adult disagreement than Serbian politicians.
Viktor on 27/09/07 05:58 PM
Cvijus, what Jaksic said is a fascist and racist statement, I don’t know how you can’t see that. So how come Jerkov is the one to blame for stating the obvious? What was she, and other members of the parliament who reacted (DS, LDP, LSV) supposed to do, just sit there pretending that nothing happened? No, they reacted by leaving the parliament and thus condemning this type of behaviour.
Nobody can give any guarantees about anything, but at least in the parliament this kind of behaviour must not happen, and if it does happen, it must be punished appropriately.
I read a good comment somewhere, now I don’t remember where: “If this guy is in charge of Kosovo matter, no wonder we are going to lose it.”
Miha on 27/09/07 06:08 PM
“Oh, have you made the amazing discovery that racism exists in more than one place? Congratulations.”
I thought we were talking about fascism here.
But I was just wondering. Since, according to Jerkov and yourself, MP Jaksic is a fascist for calling another non-Gypsy MP a name that implictly paints an entire segment of population (Gypsies) as prone to certian undesirable kind of behaviour, how do you view a society where things like “I got gypped”, “what a gyp” or “I gypped him into it” are acceptable in the media and on the street.
It seems to me that you’d have to consider Jerry Seinfeld to be a fascist as well, then. Not to metion countless others.
Cvijus on 27/09/07 06:19 PM
Viktore, a common flaw is to mix up fascism and racism/nazism. Fascism theoretically and empirically has more to do with authoritarian notions and dictatorship where nationality is a less relevant thing. What Jaksic said is rascist and nazilike and you insult me if you think that I defend him in any manner, or even to put the blame to Jerkov for Jaksic said. However, Jerkov proved herself to be of the same sort like Jaksic and the only difference is that they are on opposite fronts. Her arrogant attitude which reminds me of the girls from Strahinjica Bana doesn’t match for the values she and her coalition nominally stand for. Yes, a reaction was necessary, but in a manner that rises above the kafana-like discussions and insults. We do want to make a prestigious institution out of our parliament, don’t we? An ideal consequence for Jaksic would be for everyone to condemn him in a harch but highly civilized way and to force him to resign. In our negotiations team for Kosovo-Metohija we need the creme de la creme of experts and diplomats, and not populists like Jaksic, because I agree with the last statement “If this guy is in charge of Kosovo matter, no wonder we are going to lose it.”
Eric on 27/09/07 07:03 PM
Miha, it’s true that spoken English, especially in its informal variants, includes a lot of terms with racist origins and implications. It doesnt follow that these are accepted or respectable terms. Artists like Tarantino (who uses a lot of devices to sustain a shock effect) and Seinfeld (whose comedy uses some provocation, but he is hardly the comic most inclined to do this) do use them as techniques to produce a mood, which works because the audience understands this and is at least in some situations willing to go along (on the other hand, look at what happened to Seinfeld’s old partner Michael Richards when he flew off the handle with this). You would not hear terms like this used in a formal public setting, though. Even terms resembling ones that have racist origins sometimes get folks into trouble — like the assistant to the mayor of Washington DC who was forced to withdraw after calling a budget allocation “niggardly” (a term deriving from Swedish which means ungenerous, and which has nothing to do with the term you would get a well deserved beating for if you used it in front of African American people, even if it does sound similar).
There is all kinds of room for discussion on whether this sort of sensitivity to language is on balance good or bad, but it is a fact of social life. As is the fact that many people will continue to use derogatory terms in private.
Miha on 27/09/07 07:52 PM
“Miha, it’s true that spoken English, especially in its informal variants, includes a lot of terms with racist origins and implications. It doesn’t follow that these are accepted or respectable terms.”
Now you’re trying to confuse and sidetrack the issue. Let me just clear up a few things for people from Serbia reading this. Verb ‘to gyp’ is NOT slang. It’s a legitimate English-language term found in any dictionary. As for your claim that it’s “not accepted and respectable” or that “you’d not hear terms like this used in a formal public setting” – these statements simply aren’t true. If this word was the opposite of acceptable, there’s no way in hell, major TV networks would allow its use in their prime time programming. They’d be scared shitless of the reaction if there was even one iota of controversy surrounding its use, but they’re not. I never saw or heard anyone of note complain about the use of this term. It definitely isn’t “not accepted and not respected”.
Furthermore, you’re bending over backwards to imply that Seinfeld and Tarantino are purposely using “gyp” as a provocative device in their craft, a claim that has no merit. I live in Canada, I watch Canadian, British, and American TV, and I’ve heard TV hosts, news anchors, and all kinds of public figures use this word. This word is definitely out there in the English-speaking world, and it’s used freely without an ounce of outrage or stigma attached to its use. Seinfeld and Tarantino used it without even batting an eye. And they aren’t the only ones.
I used Seinfeld and Tarantino as examples since everyone in Serbia knows them, but I remember numerous other local TV news hosts, journalists, public figures and the like, using the word in everyday banter and conversation.
So, the question remains – how is Jaksic in your opinion a fascist, and all these other English-speaking people aren’t.
Eric on 27/09/07 08:04 PM
It’s nice that you live in Canada, but it’s a shame that you are not familiar with the history of the English language. If you were, there would be room for discussion. But your casual impressions do not leave any.
As for what Marko Jaksic is, he has already made that clear enough. No need for an opinion there from anyone.
Miha on 27/09/07 08:47 PM
“It’s nice that you live in Canada, but it’s a shame that you are not familiar with the history of the English language. If you were, there would be room for discussion.”
Yes, more evasiveness and sidetracking.
I listed specific examples that disprove your claim about the word gyp “not being accepted and used in formal setting throughout the English-speaking world” and your response is – the history of English language.
You were the first to scold Jaksic for doing what he did, but when it comes to reacting to English speakers doing the very same thing, your response is “Oh, Miha, you poor little immigrant, you’re not familiar with the history of English language, so instead of answering, I’ll just righteously ignore you”.
Pretty good tactic, I must say. Reminds me of the Milosevic supporters whose response to criticism from abroad during the ’90s invariably contained some version of the following: “Oh, you aloof foreign people don’t understand us Serbs and our history, so we’re not even going to dignify your queries until you learn our history from Sveti Sava until Karadjordje”.
Eric on 27/09/07 09:09 PM
That is a nonsensical response. But keep on making sweeping factual claims about the language based on the scripts of Quentin Tarantino, if it makes you happy.
Viktor on 28/09/07 12:17 AM
Cvijus, I can’t quite understand what is it in her short speech or attitude you found to be Jaksic-like, kafana-like or Strahinica Bana-like, so will not continue this debate about Jerkov.
Racism or fascism, does it really matter which one is it in this case? It is definately one or the other and it’s plain wrong and completely inappropriate and needs to be punished, that’s what’s important. Jerkov, Batic, Aligrudic, Jovanovic etc are all irrelevant to this particular issue. Jaksic needs to be in the centre of attention.
Miha on 28/09/07 06:37 AM
Eric,
You keep twisting my words. It wasn’t Tarantino-written script, but Tarantino-spoken words in an interview.
Just this afternoon as I was driving home, the radio host on a Toronto commercial mainstream, sanitized-for-your-protection Talk 640 AM radio station (this is just so you don’t think it’s some kind of a rogue renegade college operation with like 4 listeners) was discussing a random telemarketer’s call he got at his home. An interesting word came out of his mouth very nonchalantly, and I quote: “They gypped me into buying a 6-months worth of subscription to Toronto Star”.
I also remembered recently hearing the local host on a morning TV show use the word while bantering about with his female co-host at the end of a filmed segment. Now, one would be hard-pressed to find anything more mainstream in the entire English-speaking media spectrum than these lame-ass “Good Morning ____” shows mostly targeting housewives. When a host on such a show feels comfortable using that word, it’s pretty preposterous to claim that this word is somehow frowned upon in the English-speaking world.
These are just two more random examples from recent memory, there are obviously many, many more.
You also accuse me of “making sweeping factual claims about the language”, which I’m not sure where you got. I’m simply saying that, as someone living in the English-speaking world for 14 years now, I’m witness to the fact that the very thing for which you consider Jaksic to be a fascist occurs readily all over that English-speaking world. And that being as it is, I found it curious if you’d be so consistent to also label all these English-speaking public figures to be fascists as well, seeing that they did the exact same thing as Jaksic.
Instead, I got an evasive and juvenilely flippant response that basically boils down to: “I’ll just ignore you, immigrant boy, since you don’t know anything about the history of MY language”.
Sasha on 28/09/07 07:03 AM
You are freaking kidding me!!!! Formula and opera segments were “accidentally” played over Batic’s response??? Very convenient timing for a technical problem.
Victor, I think something was lost in translation here:
“he was talking about the „specific Gypsy mentality of Mr. Batić“”.
He didn’t say “mentality” he said “character trait”. “Mentality” just sounds too soft for what Jaksic actually said. Imagine someone in the Canadian Parliament saying this: “ I didn’t mean to insult black people, when I said he’s a “nigger” I meant it as a character trait”.
Cvijus, unless you can quote where in her address to the Parliament Jerkov employed kafana-like insults and debate style, your argument is just empty and biased. You clearly don’t like LSV and what Jerkov stands for, and it’s your right to like/dislike them, but you failed to demonstrate what you keep repeating, namely that she was arrogant ( or whatever else you’re implying) in this particular comment. I listened to it 3 times and still saw no trace of what you are saying. It seems to me that you’re attributing “arrogance” to her words based on your opinion of her party, not what she actually said. The only flaw in her comment was using fascism interchangeably with racism.
The fact that “gyp” is still in use in popular culture does not make it any less wrong. It implies a whole ethnic group as “cheaters” etc. But why is it still considered acceptable? All (previously oppressed) groups with strong lobbies and watchdogs managed to expel related offensive terms from everyday language, and Roma community is still too weak in that respect so nobody cares and no one pays attention. That being said, I have never heard this word used in the Canadian Parliament and I would be curious to see how it would go over.
I agree that Jaksic should be at the center of the attention here. One day we’ll have a society ( and Parliament) that will be able to exert enough pressure on transgressors, but today, I don’t think that stepping down is even an option. Unfortunately.
Nemanja (BG 2.0) on 28/09/07 09:19 AM
Sasha: Victor, I think something was lost in translation here:
“he was talking about the „specific Gypsy mentality of Mr. Batić“”.
He didn’t say “mentality” he said “character trait”. “Mentality” just sounds too soft for what Jaksic actually said. Imagine someone in the Canadian Parliament saying this: “ I didn’t mean to insult black people, when I said he’s a “nigger” I meant it as a character trait”.
Well, first of all, my name is Nemanja (yes, I am a completely different person, not just one of Viktor’s aliases he uses to make this blog seem crowded :-D).
Second, you’re right, I just copy/pasted his first insult without much attention to what he actually said in his “apology”. I’ll correct it right away.
You learn something every day. :)
Sasha on 28/09/07 01:31 PM
Nemanja, I apologize. I just assumed Viktor wrote the article, without checking it. I know that several people post here, I’ll be more attentive next time. I will also stop transcribing Viktor’s name when I use it:))
Cvijus on 28/09/07 01:46 PM
Victor, I completely agree with you that Jaksic has to be in the centre of attention and needs and deserves to be punished. However, his behavior does not neutralize the behavior of others which is based on his deeds. Nevertheless, I don’t have anything to add for Jaksic which hasn’t been said already. My opinion of him doesn’t differ at all of your opinion of him.
Sacha, I don’t even hide that I don’t like LSV. At least there I’m honest. But on the individual level for an example, at the Kostres-Ilic duel I was definitely on the side of Kostres. However, those who know how parliamentary debates are abroad, they can recognize the kafana-like, Strahinjica Bana-like behavior of Jerkov. In Germany you don’t give names to people in order to characterize them. In the verbal conflicts with Fascists they don’t call them Fascists and pretend that that is insulting them. What a debate includes are elements which try with valid arguments with facts to discredit someone. Ceda did that and he has my credits for it, but Jerkov obviously didn’t but stood overthere as if she’s a hostess on Pink TV with remarks that remind me of Titoist rhetorics.
bganon on 28/09/07 02:39 PM
You know I dont see the parallel between the usage of English language which is not politically correct and and openly racist statement made with clear intent.
Is the implication that one is the same or as bad as the other? I havent heard ‘gyp’ been used before. I have heard and used what I assume to be the English, English variant ‘gypo’ many years ago. Gypo in the sense that something is rubbish or crap. Never even occured to me that it might be something to do with the Roma.
Now, because I think its ridiculously PC to make people feel resopnsible for racism on account of their unwittingly using a word they do not know the origins of, does that mean that I am supposed to support deliberate racist statements / stereotypes?
I’m also a bit of a stickler on descriptions – what that nobody Jaksic said was not fascist by the definition of fascism as I understand it.
That doesnt make it any less odious though.
Jonathan Davis on 28/09/07 05:35 PM
I think Bganon is spot on in these comments:
“Stereotypes about gypsies may and can be said by ‘Joe Public’, even if distasteful or wrong, but members of parliament have a responsibility to behave in the correct manner.”
This is the whole point. Bigoted stereotypes about Roma and the elements of Roma culture which contribute to them will take generations to eradicate. In the meantime public officials – indeed anyone engaged in public speech – should be operating to a higher and more responsible standard. That standard, in my view, should be that holding such racist views makes one unfit for office.
The prevalence of casual racism and homophobia in Serbia is the one thing that lets down the country terribly. The near universal use of the word “n*gger” to refer to black people is just one telling example. “Its just a word” I am reassured every time I object, “it means nothing”. I don’t think so. It is a symptom of a mentality that blights Serbian culture. For such a welcoming, open minded people as the Serbs, racism just does not and should not fit.
For the record, I am certainly no member of the PC nanny race lobby who want to have someone fired for describing someone as “coloured” instead of “black “or “African-American”.
But the issues of the treatment of minorities and commitment to equality will be the true bellwethers of Serbia’s social progress. It will not require a loosening of social bonds, abandoning national pride, signing up to pernicious multiculturalism or having to consider despicable cultures as equals. No, it will mean a commitment and enforcement of the principles of fairness, of individualism and freedom – all of which are antagonistic to racism and fascism.
bganon on 29/09/07 08:33 PM
Johnathan although I agree with you generally, I dont think you should be so hard on Serbs who use the N word. It doesnt carry the same baggage as when its spoken in western socieities. Having said that, one can tell often not by what words are used, but by reading the sentiment behind it through the tone (or for that matter the look on the persons face). Still, if one is black, no matter where one is, I expect one would find it offensive to be referred to in that way.
I also have some hip hop styleee friends here who use the term the way ‘street’ blacks(for want of a better word – at risk of making myself sound racist) use it to address one another. I dont think those Serbs mean to use to the word in an offensive way.
Enforcement is the key issue. It seems to me to be the main issue in Serbian society. Many of the right laws are in place but so many of them are not enforced or there is too much acceptance or condoning of incorrect behaviour.
Jonathan Davis on 02/10/07 01:35 AM
Hi Bganon,
I agree it is overwhelmingly applied innocently. The same problem existed in Italy for years where people presumed negro – Italian for black person – was a perfectly acceptable term in English too.
As I said, I am not a PC nanny exploiting white guilt about innocent mistake in word usage. My point was about people’s reaction after I warned them that the term is deeply offensive to many people (white and black) and best avoided.
These are my friends – certainly not racist – but unconcerned that they might be misinterpreted and seemingly unaware of how big an issue this is in the world at large.
This feed directly into your point on enforcement. If it is nigh on impossible to dissuade people from using offensive terms, what hope is there in attacking attitudes, biases and discriminatory behavior.
One may counter that who cares what words people use as long as they do not have those attitudes, biases or carry out those racist acts?
Again it comes down to a matter of perception. It is not just a social justice issue but a reputation issue.
Two South Africans visited Serbia last month. They asked me a very strange question: “Are Serbs racist?” I told them “Certainly not”.
Their reply chilled me: “Oh its just the guidebook warned that blacks or Asian visitors might want to be careful because Serbs don’t like them”. As someone dedicated to trying to rehabilitate Serbia’s international reputation, this sort of thing sickens me.
Setting aside the irony of that piece of advice being racist against the Serbs and it coming from South Africans, I cannot help but wonder if a guidebook writer or visitor might not draw a few incorrect conclusions for hearing conversations laced with references to “n*ggers” or even “n*ggas”?